What’s Your Money Story? Interview with Jean Lynn (Episode 76)
We all have stories we tell ourselves about money.
There’s never enough
People with a lot of money are greedy
My worth is linked to how much money I make
I need to hang onto it in case (insert catastrophe)
Financial planner and author Jean Lynn is my guest today and we dive into the money stories women tell themselves, plus explore her new book, “Breaking the Money Taboo”.
Grab a pen and paper because you’ll want to take notes!
What You’ll Learn:
- Shocking statistics on women and wealth.
- The money stories we tell ourselves that block abundance.
- How the financial industry has it all wrong.
- Ditch the judgement on your history with money.
- Your money personality and how to use it to your advantage.
Do you have money stories that are holding you back from becoming financially free? We all do and that doesn’t have to continue to be your experience.
Listen to the episode above or stream it on your favorite podcast app:
Schedule your Discovery Call with me today so together we can rewrite your financial future!
What’s Your Money Story? Interview with Jean Lynn(Transcript)
You are listening to episode 76 of Your Next Phase Podcast. The one where we’re going to talk about your money stories and learn what your money personality is. This is a really good one.
Hello, my friends. How are you? Oh, my stars. Here we go again. We are at another podcast, and I have to say I am super excited because I am interviewing somebody that you are going to flippin love.
Jean Lynn is a money expert and author of a brand new book “Breaking the Money Taboo”.
We’re going to talk all about it.
All month we’re talking about stories and the stories that you tell. So, today’s episode is all about the money stories and man, do we have stories around money!
The Topic Of Money Never Feels Comfortable
It is never a comfortable topic for people, which is always fascinating to me because I love money, but the stuff we learn as kids. All of that, right?
Here are some stats, and it is just shocking to me.
Money Stats For Divorced women over 50
Most of them are financially unstable after the five-year mark of being divorced.
- Their household income decreases 41 percent compared to men’s 23%.
- Women are granted raises in the corporate setting only 15 percent of the time that they ask versus men who get them 20 percent of the time. (Harvard Business Review)
Here’s the scene. Money is power. Money is choice. Money is freedom.
This is why I am so excited to have a conversation with Jean Lynn, who is not only an amazing author, but a certified financial planner.
She’s written a brand-new book that we’re going to talk about.
It’s all about your money personalities, which is a concept she’s come up with, which I think is brilliant.
So, I’m going to welcome you Jean to the podcast.
Your Money Story: Interview with Jean Lynn
Jean: Thank you. Barbara. I loved your introduction and I’m so excited to talk to you today.
Barbara: Thank you. I’m thrilled that you are here, and you are my first interview. I’m just going to say, I’ve been doing solo for 75 episodes and I have told my listeners, you know what? We’re going to bring some chicks in here and we’re going to change the flipping world.
So, this podcast is all about your next phase, right? But first tell my listeners a little bit about you. Okay.
Who are you? How did you get into this? And what led you to money?
Jean: I, as you said, I’m a certified financial planner. I’ve spent my entire career in financial services, and I’m convinced they’re doing it all wrong, Barbara. It is an industry that was created by men for men, and women don’t need to change. What needs to change is the financial industry. So that’s the first thing I would share with you. And my biggest observation is that it’s all about numbers and charts, and it’s not about emotions, but they, at the same time, the financial industry freely admits that people make emotional decisions about money. That’s why I created my financial personality model to help, especially women understand their financial personality and make more intentional decisions going forward.
Barbara: This is so necessary because here’s the thing, and I don’t know if you have ever had this situation, but I certainly have, okay. I walk in to buy a car and I am, you know, and I am there with my spouse and the car salesman, uh, typically male will just talk to my spouse. What can I help you with? What are you looking for?
All the things. And I’m like, hello, I’m the one buying the damn car. I have walked out of dealerships because of that, right? I’m like, you just lost a sale. I’ve had the same thing happen when I go into a financial planner office to talk about that. Here’s one thing that for me, for sure, I need to learn more about the ins and outs of investing and why. I have always, my brain just says, no, not now.
That’s too complicated. I’m not interested in it. I don’t want to know about it. You know, it’s kind of like Scarlett O’Hara, I’ll think about that tomorrow. And I am at a point in my life where I’m starting the next phase and I need to know these things, but I want to learn about it in a fun way. If you give me stats and charts and Excel spreadsheets, I’m going to snore.
So, what I love about this is that you are educating women in a fun and interesting and different way rather than talking down, because that just makes me crazy.
Jean: Yes. And what I think is great is a great point to make is that the stories that you tell yourselves, I love this theme. When you think about women, shame, shame is a big story that women tell themselves when it comes to money. And to your point around, uh, men talking down to you or around you, whenever you’re involved in a financial transaction that occurs to all of us. I think we all understand it. And I think it’s important to acknowledge that. Women haven’t been able to make autonomous financial decisions until the last 50 years.
This wasn’t something that our mothers did, our grandmothers did. We shouldn’t have shame about it. And we have to change those money stories because to your point, once you can become involved in your finances, that is the source of independence of choice of so many different, um, good things. It is.
Barbara: It really is. And you know, it’s interesting. It’s not that long ago that women couldn’t have a checkbook without their husband. They couldn’t open up a checking account without their husband’s approval, right? He had to sign. They couldn’t take out a loan. They couldn’t get a credit card. I mean, this is the seventies that this was going on, right?
So, thank you, Gloria Steinem. I’m just going to say she’s in her eighties. But thank you, Gloria Steinem. We have a really long way to go. But what I love about your approach, not only about the personalities, and we’ll talk about that, but what I love about your approach is that it is about feelings. And I am a feeler.
I am a huge empath. And of course, I have to manage that energy and so on. But my purchases. My investments, um, will be about, is this a company that’s in alignment with my core values versus what are they doing on the S& P? And I’m guessing I am not in the, in the, uh, minority on that.
What’s been your experience with the women you serve?
Jean: So, I’d say a couple of different things. So completely agree. I think women want their investments to align with their values more so than men. And the good news is, is I think the industry is moving towards that and there’s more choices more than ever for women to do that.
But I also think it’s important to acknowledge that. When you can, uh, you know, gain a certain amount of wealth. Money is a tool to help you achieve what you want. So, money can be that tool for you to give to an organization or a cause or whoever you want to do good in the world. It’s not just a one-way street.
It’s not just about investing in a certain way. It’s understanding the power that wealth gives you to help make the changes that you want.
Barbara: I love that. So, let’s just back up a little bit. Tell me why, what’s the backstory between, because your book is called Breaking the Money Taboo, which is really a great title.
I highly recommend it and there will be a link in the show notes to her book where you can purchase her book and also a link to her website so you can learn more about Jean. But let’s go back. Okay, you’re a financial planner, you’re doing the things, you’re like, this system is fucked up for women.
Why did you write this book?
Jean: I wrote this book, I think, because of my own money story. So, I grew up as a spender and a family of savers. I grew up thinking that money was the all present elephant in the room. It guided every decision my family made, but we never talked about it. And there was this attitude towards scarcity.
So, and, and that didn’t make sense to me. We had a nice house and a nice neighborhood. My dad had a great job, but I always heard these dreaded words, “We can’t afford it.” We can’t afford it over and over again. And I started to think in my mind, we can’t afford it meant you’re not worth it. So, yeah, so that’s, that was the connection.
That was a story I told myself, Barbara, is we can’t afford it.
Barbara: Oh my God.
Jean: And so, in my early twenties, I started this career in financial services. I’m learning all about the ways to create wealth and how to, how to invest. But at the same time, I’m making bad money choices. I found myself in thousands of dollars of credit card debt in my early twenties, because I was spending as an expression of my self-worth.
So that’s when I started to really do a lot of research around money. And one thing that’s important for everyone to know that’s listening is that. Money – your attitudes and beliefs about money are oftentimes formulated by early childhood experiences just like mine was and those follow you and those really impact your decisions around money even today. Because they’re unexamined We don’t necessarily know why we’re making the decisions that we do. But once you get there once you start to understand your money story and your financial personality – that was the biggest freeing point for me is I disconnected my self-worth from spending, and I was able to make decisions that helped me connect to my long-term goals versus what was sitting right in front of me.
Barbara: Oh my God, this is so brilliant because so many women tie their value, their worth as a human to money. And the women that I work with, it’s to their salary, right? Or their bonuses or anything like that. And I often get women asking me while I’m up for promotion or, you know, Hey, I’ve been just added another job to my already overflowing plate and I want to ask for a raise or additional income, whatever. And, but I have to make, you know, I keep hearing I should, I should ask for what I’m worth. And that is such a trap because you can’t get paid what you’re worth because your worth as a human being is infinite. You don’t have to do anything to be worthy.
You were born. You took your first breath. There you go. That’s it. You’re done. You’re worthy. So, we tie this all up with this BS around money. I mean, my money stories when I was little, same thing, right? Lived in a nice house, lived in a nice area. Dad had a good job. We were like this, you know, 1950s family, truly.
And, you know, dad, mom, three kids, cute portrait, all the things. But his beliefs around money and my mother’s, you know, my mother was like, Hey, it’s a sale. Let’s go spend it’s on sale. So, I’m actually saving money. Wait a minute. You aren’t saving money. You’re just spending less. There’s a big difference, my friend.
But of course, my dad was like, listen, there’s always another sale; needs versus wants. My mom was, well, it’s all wants. It’s all needs. They’re all the same, right? So, I’m growing up with two separate, totally different stories. Right. So, I think we really need to examine where these beliefs came from. And I couldn’t tell you today.
I still don’t know. We never talked about it. Did my dad make $50,000 a year? Did he make $500,000 a year? I have no idea. I have no idea. And I think it is fascinating that we don’t talk about money.
Why do you think that money is a taboo topic, especially for women?
Jean: A couple of things. And one great question, I think, to, to ask yourself and is, is, is this think especially around, um, salaries and you, you brought up so many different things as salaries can be tied to your, to your own self-worth, you brought up the fact that your dad never talked about money. You know, money’s definitely a taboo topic for many families. What if you had to go to a cocktail party and you had your net worth written, uh, on your forehead? Would that make you a little uncomfortable?
Barbara: Oh my God, I’m freaking out right here. But here’s the other thing. Do we even know what our net worth is? Do we even have those numbers? Have we done that homework to understand what our net worth is? That’s such a good thing. Oh my God. Now you’ve given me a total idea for a party that I’m going to have.
Jean: And, and the reason I bring this up is, is because I recognize this is uncomfortable for a lot of people. It makes people uncomfortable. But if you think about other topics that we talk about, you know, women, we’ll talk about sex. We’ll talk about infidelity. We’ll talk about a lot of different things, but for some reason, money is this taboo because perhaps we didn’t talk about it with our mothers because they didn’t have financial autonomy and didn’t make financial decisions.
There’s a long tail of why it’s an uncomfortable topic, but I think the first way to make it more comfortable is to get into financial personalities and your example of your mom and your dad is a very common one when it comes to money, personalities, opposites attract, and that’s the first dynamic that I talk about with financial personalities is typically one person has an abundance mindset.
An abundance mindset isn’t necessarily just a spender, but this is a person that has an abundance mindset thinks the best is yet to be. Things are only going to get better.
Barbara: Yes. That’s me. Always. I am a spender. I’m a really good saver too, but you know, I don’t freak out about spending money at all.
Jean: Because you, you know, you’re confident that things are going to get better. You’re excited about new opportunities.
Barbara: Yeah, totally.
Jean: Versus, and this isn’t necessarily connected exclusively to women and men, even though this is the example. So, so you can be an abundance mindset, whether you’re a male or a woman, but then on the other side, in your example, your dad had a scarcity mindset. The scarcity mindset oftentimes is waiting for the other shoe to drop. They’re worried about what’s gonna happen. They wanna be prepared. And the reason I talk about this more in the context of their mindset versus whether they’re a saver or a spender is because one is not right.
And one is not wrong. Oftentimes it again, it comes back to the experiences that they grew up with and how they felt growing up.
Barbara: So, I want to pause here because I really want to hit this point home. There’s so much shame around money, around lack of knowledge around money, around how you spend or invest your money, or how you don’t, or whatever. And I want people to understand, there is nothing wrong here. There’s nothing wrong with you. There’s no right or wrong. Don’t judge it. It is information. It’s information. Here are the money personalities, what resonates with you. That’s really good information because you can use that moving forward to make decisions, right?
So let’s just all of us take the shame away from money. Let’s decide that we are going to learn and be curious. We’re going to notice when our brains start to shut down and say, no, no, no, no. I don’t want to do that. It’s too much work. I’m not smart enough. Whatever the BS that your Derailers™ are coming up with.
Remember in investing and in saving and money in everything we do. You guys, we have 4 Derailers™, Perfection, Procrastination, People-Pleasing, Proving. They’re going to show up everywhere. And we’ve talked about that on the podcast. So let’s talk about what a financial personality is. And I have to, um, full disclosure, I have heard this before, and I think it’s brilliant.
So I’m on the edge of my chair.
Jean: You’re good. One thing, I do want to just add one thing to what you just said, I am so excited that you said that. Let me tell you a secret, Barbara. Everyone, and I’m including the billionaires out here. Everyone makes money mistakes. Everyone, they just don’t talk about them.
And my book, I talk about every single money mistake I’ve made. Oftentimes women avoid money decisions because they don’t have all the information. Like you were talking about, they’re worried about making a mistake. You can still be financially independent and successful. You’re going to make money mistakes.
It’s what, what are you going to do after that money mistake? What are you going to learn from it? How are you, how are you going to move forward? So, so please, if I can say one thing, don’t be afraid of starting to invest because you think you’re going to make a mistake. The biggest mistake actually is not engaging, not starting.
Cause the biggest friend for any investor is time. All right. So I did derailed your question, but I just want to get that in.
Barbara: No, not at all. I think it’s an important thing because, you know, we’ve all made money mistakes. I mean, hey, I’ve made haircut mistakes. I’ve made fashion mistakes. I’ve made money mistakes. You know, I mean. We’re human. We’re having a human experience. The key I think is to learn from them, understand what precipitated that, where was your mindset around that, all that. So, all right, here we go.
Financial Personalities: What Are They?
Jean: Financial personalities. And the good news is I went through the first part of the financial personality.
There are really two things to consider when you’re determining what your financial personality is.
- One is, are you someone who has that abundance mindset?
- Are you someone who has a scarcity mindset?
Think about these on a continuum, on a scale of one to ten. One is extreme abundance. Ten is extreme scarcity. Maybe you fall somewhere in the middle. That’s the first one to think about.
The second consideration to think about is how you approach your finances.
People enjoy money and investing
You know who you are, you have multiple spreadsheets right now, and there’s definitely a group of folks who love getting into money and investing.
Those Who Avoid Money & Financial Decisions
There are a lot of complex reasons why sometimes, uh, folks on this side think about money as something that’s a little bit evil or accumulating money is something that is something that, that they feel is not, uh, something they want to be as a person.
It’s almost like they have good and bad associated with money.
Barbara: Oh, let’s stop right there for a second because I don’t understand this because it’s not my experience. Right. However, I have heard it from so many people. I have heard it from my husband’s side of the family. People with money are selfish. People with money are evil. People with money. It’s like, they’re just bad people. And it’s like, wait a minute. Where did all of this come from? Money is energy. Money is an exchange for services or goods. Money is just a thing that gets you to Italy or buys you groceries or gets you a new pair of shoes or whatever.
But isn’t it fascinating that people associate the more you have, you must then be a bad person. You must be greedy. You must be whatever but then in our capitalist society, everybody wants to have more money.
Jean: Yeah!
Barbara: So, what a shit show is going on in the brains of the people that are struggling with people who have money are evil, but I really would like to make more money.
That’s just gotta be nuts.
Jean: It is. And so, what do they do? They avoid it, right? Because they, they’re overwhelmed with all the different emotions. And so that’s one of the reasons, and that’s, that’s not the only reason why someone might be on that avoidance side. Uh, but, but oftentimes it is, and they feel like it’s more of an obligation thinking about money and investing is an obligation to them.
So, you put those two things together. Are you someone that has that abundance mindset or scarcity mindset? Do you avoid or enjoy finances? And that’s how you get the four money personalities. And I’ll go through them, uh, really quickly for you. So, if you think about first, let’s talk about individuals that have a scarcity mindset.
Barbara: Okay.
Jean: Individuals that have a scarcity mindset. If they enjoy, um, investing and thinking about money and finances to them, money is a puzzle. So, their personal financial situation is a puzzle that they can solve. That’s why they have so many spreadsheets. They oftentimes like to look at investing and thinking about investing. But again, they want to be very prepared. They’ve got a plan A, B, and C because they do think at some point that shoe’s going to drop and they want to make sure they have a plan for when that happens.
Barbara: Oh, I love that. And, and I’m kind of, you know, I’m not a scarcity person. I just enjoy it, I’m like a bookkeeper.
I like it when it all adds up and it works out well, right? It’s like, I’m one of those weird people. I like going to the dentist. I like how my teeth feel when I’m done. I don’t mind having them cleaned, right? I’m sorry you guys, now I’m, now I’m like, divulging everything. I actually have a checkbook register.
When I get my statement, I actually go through it and I think that is something I enjoy. I like making sure, okay, it all balanced out. Everything is accounted for. Yay. So, this is going to be fun. All right, you guys, I hope you’re listening, taking notes because this is good. So are you scarcity and enjoy investing, but then there’s that, Oh, the shoe might drop. So, I better be prepped. I better have a plan B.
Jean: That’s right. And we’ll get to, we’ll get to your, what I think where you might fall, Barbara, in a minute, but let’s finish out the scarcity side of the equation. So, the scarcity individuals that avoid the topic of money and investing, to them, money and their personal finances is stress.
In one word, and a lot of women, um, a lot of women that I’ve met and worked with fall into that mindset. So, it, and this is something that they, it. And you’ll see it in their eyes, even just like, if someone comes to see me speak, someone else’s drag them there and they’re just stressed out there.
You know, you can tell they don’t even want to think about it. Think the mere act of thinking about money really stresses them out. So that’s that side. So, either money is a puzzle to be solved or money is a source of stress in your life. We’ll jump over to the other side of the equation. So, looking at individuals who have that abundance mindset.
If they really enjoy finances to them, money is a symbol of their success. So, money and investing can be a symbol of their success. Now how can, how can success be represented by their finances? It could be maybe donations that they gave to their favorite charity. It could be giving. So, a lot of times individuals in this group are givers.
They could be giving to family and friends, other types of things. Another source, you know, another way that they can express their success could be a lot of possessions. There could, you know, it could be a house, a car, a boat, whatever. So, that’s that cohort. And then the last money personality. So, this is someone that has an abundance mindset, but they avoid talking about money.
To them, money, investing their personal financial situation is an obligation. They know it’s important, but it’s not first on their list of fun things to do.
Barbara: Oh, dare I say they think it’s a should. I think so. I mean, I, this is so fascinating to me. I really think that I don’t know how many women are looking at this. As a should and obligation. I know it’s important, but I really don’t want to. I wonder how much of that is I don’t know enough. I’m not smart enough. You know, uh, he usually took care of that.
Now, obviously we’re speaking in very simple gender roles, male and female. I’m just, I think that so much of this, the anxiety around it, and I mean, I know I’m just flipping through so many women that I already know that are going through this. I’m like, Oh, yep. That’s her. That’s her. That’s her. So how fascinating that we have all of these things, right?
So, I’m guessing I’m in abundance. I’m an abundance who enjoys finances. It’s a symbol of success. Cause I look at, you know, how much I have in investments, how much I make, you know, that kind of stuff that is, I think that would be me probably more than, but I’m not somebody who really likes to dive into investing.
I’m just really, I’ll be full disclosure. I’m just really learning more about it.
Jean: Well, that makes sense. And so first of all, it’s an easy way to help you understand where you are with your finances. And again, it’s on a continuum. So, you may find a little bit of elements of, of different parts, but the next thing to me, the most important thing is, okay, what do you do with this information?
Barbara: Yeah.
Jean: And the coolest thing about, I think about understanding your financial personality is it helps you make more intentional decisions going forward. So, if you’ve been putting off, maybe thinking about what your investment plan is, or talking to your financial professional or doing your estate plan. Once you understand your financial personality, then, I talk a lot about this in the book.
Here’s some things for you to keep in mind if you are a member of this group. So when I think about individuals in that success group, so let’s talk about that, Barbara. One of the things I often share is if, if you’re, if, if money is a symbol of success to you, recognize that your generosity can sometimes get you into trouble. So that’s one of the things that we see with that group is oftentimes they want to give to others, but you have to obviously take care of yourself first.
Barbara: Right.
Jean: Conversely, we go over to individuals where money is a source of stress So individuals that are in that stress mindset, and I think many women are in that group it’s starting to think about What and this is going to be a hard departure from what you think I’m going to say, but it’s not taught It’s not talking about investing.
It’s starting to think about what you want your life to look like. What you want your goals to be because for individuals that avoid the topics of money and finance, a good investment is never gonna be something that they really love to talk about. And fortunately investing and being a successful investor building financial independence actually isn’t that complicated, you know, that financial industry created by men for men, they have over complicated it made it a jargon filled industry to make themselves appear smarter.
That’s just one person’s opinion, maybe. That’s just my opinion.
Barbara: I think it’s probably more than one person’s opinion, but I think it’s so true because let’s think about what do we want our life to look like?
What, you know, do we want to go live in Italy for three months out of the year?
Do we want to sell our house?
And you know the thing during, you know, the pandemic and everything, everybody’s selling their house, they’re getting an RV, they’re just going across the world, you know, whatever. What do you want? For me, that drops you down into dreaming, feelings, manifesting, those kinds of things.
You can always come back to “how are we going to get there”, but first you have to know the picture of what you want so that you know how much it’s going to take to support that vision.
Jean: Yes. And I go through a series of questions in my book, and I think there’s lots of different ways for you to figure out what is the life that you want to look like, but I think the biggest disservice the financial industry focuses on and as given to Americans is this hyper focus on retirement.
And unfortunately, if you look at the number one goal of any Americans is retirement, right? Second is retirement income. I don’t know what that means, Barbara.
Do you know what retirement means?
Barbara: You know what? And let’s do full disclosure here. Now I am talking to Jean and she lives in the Caribbean. Okay.
I’m just saying she’s got it all figured out. I have often said, I don’t know why retirement is this thing that I’m supposed to be doing. Um, because I love what I do and I can do it anywhere. I am the gal that wants to live in Italy for three months and travel in Europe and do all the things because I can coach people there.
I can lead my retreats, you know, in Europe. When I retire, I think, uh, you know, I’m going to have, I’m going to be done. And it’s like, what am I retiring to do? And I know so many people that have retired and they are lost. They don’t know what they’re supposed to do. They haven’t planned for that. They haven’t gotten their mindset into that.
Jean: They plan for the numbers and not the life, right? Exactly.
Barbara: Oh my God. I say that again. Hang on. They plan for the number, but not the life y’all. Jot that down. That’s gold right there.
Jean: So, Barbara, that to me, it was the biggest aha for me. You know, as that, as that spender in my twenties is I started spending time on thinking about what do I want my life to look like right now? Not. 40 or 50 or some number decades of years, uh, beyond that. And I started to work towards that because then you can have tradeoffs, especially meaningful tradeoffs. Do I want to do this, or do I want to, and you hit the nail on the head. One of my dreams of my life was to live in the Virgin Islands.
So, I had a picture of St. John, which is where I live right now, right behind me in my office. I don’t right now, because I live there, but I used to when I did it and every day it would remind me of the things that I wanted to focus on the things that I wanted to spend my money on versus not.
So talking about money and investing, you don’t have to spend a lot of time on. What’s the S&P 500. Do I need a large cap growth versus small cap value? Those things are actually the simple, simple older things, but you have to figure out what type of life you want to lead because that helps you, you and, or maybe your financial, uh, professional figure out well, how much money are you going to need to get there or what type of job or maybe cash flow do you need to get there? There’s lots of different ways and to your point a lot of folks don’t necessarily want to stop working It’s just having the freedom to make the choices that you want to.
Barbara: That’s it and that and it goes back to you know, money is freedom. It really is so now we know our financial personalities.
How Do Tell Money Personalities influence how you view money or investing?
Jean: So, each one will, will view it a little differently, but, and I’m going to give you two quick points here. One is, and I go into detail a lot about this in my book, but especially that, that cohort that avoids money and investing.
Oftentimes, it’s so influential on how they feel. Oftentimes, again, they’re afraid to make a mistake. They’re scared sometimes to even, um, think about some of these, uh, conversations. And so they avoid it altogether. So, unfortunately, how they feel can, can result in some suboptimal choices. So, that’s one thing to think about.
The second thing is our family members, maybe partners or individuals that are around us often have a different money personality than we do. Financial personality you talked about with your mom and dad. This can be a big source of stress in relationships. This could be parents, siblings, children, partners, and in my research around investors, that, that, that’s one of the biggest sources of frustration. Maybe you have one view of how you think you should be saving or spending or investing and someone else that’s close to you has a different point of view and you just can’t understand why this person thinks the way they do.
That’s one of my favorite things about understanding your financial personality because you can start to understand the financial personality of someone close to you. And instead of having that same old argument about money over and over again, uh, and I saw this so many times in my research, you start to have a little bit of curiosity. Well, tell me a little bit more about why maybe you think that way, or what was one of your earliest childhood experiences with money? And I’ve seen this so much with couples. It really changes their dynamic and helps them stop that same old, you know, rinse and repeat argument that they’ve had about finances and approach things a little bit differently.
Barbara: So that is such a great point because you know, when you have a different personality than your spouse you spend often most of your time trying to convince the other person that yours is the right way rather than understanding, hey, this is just my point of view. This is the, these are the glasses I put on and this is the lens that I’m looking through. Here, let’s switch glasses. And so, help me understand how this lens informs how you make decisions and how you spend money and how you invest. I think that’s brilliant.
We have to be more curious about it instead of trying to be right all the time. Cause here’s the, you know, that old saying, Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?
Jean: Yeah. And I’m sure you’ve seen and lots of folks have seen. Hey, here’s my love language. No one’s ever said, what’s your financial language?
Barbara: Oh my God. That’s your next book. Yes. Your next book, my friend, your, your financial language. No, that’s great. Let me ask this question.
Do women have different financial personalities than men?
Jean: Sometimes not always, and obviously with every generalization, there are exceptions, but one big difference when it comes to money between women and men is a perception of this word risk. And let me just spend a minute on this because. The question, what is your risk tolerance is something that is required by every investment institution.
Every financial advisor has to ask you this question before you make an investment. What is your risk tolerance? But guess what? The word risk is interpreted differently by men and women. When men hear the term risk, they think it’s a positive term, you know, to men, risk is go big or go home. To men risk is I’m going to go out and feed my family. Risk is necessary for survival. But when women hear the term risk, we perceive it in a negative light. Risk to women is something that you do. That’s bad. That may or may not result in a negative outcome. Risk is not wearing your seatbelt. Risk is not putting your children in a car seat.
So here is this really ridiculous, dumb question that everyone is asked that has big implications for your investments when we’re using language that doesn’t translate to everyone in the same way. So, this drives me crazy. So, to me, this is one of the biggest. Is asking someone what your risk tolerance is, is framing this conversation and in a way that says, Oh, I want the safe investment, right?
So, if women think risk is something that you do, that’s bad, they’ll say, well, just put me in something safe and what, and unfortunately there is no safe investment. You can put your money in cash, but I think we all know especially with inflation over the last couple of years. You put your money in cash, you’re not going to be able to buy the same amount of goods and services 10, 20, 30 years from now.
So, we need a different question. We need a different language. It’s really about tradeoffs. And when you bring it up to women in that way, let’s talk about the different tradeoffs, the different types of investments. Then… you have a different type of conversation. And I’ll just tell you one quick story.
I was sharing this story about the word risk to a group of women, probably similar to folks that are listening on this podcast. And one woman raised her hand up and she said, Oh my gosh, Jean, I need to have a conversation with my financial advisor. She goes, I still remember him asking me that question a few years ago.
She said when he asked me what my risk tolerance was in my mind, I was thinking, what’s my tolerance for jumping off a cliff?
Barbara: Oh my God.
Jean: Yes. And so that’s, to me, one of the reasons I wrote this book is the language we’re using is not connecting with women and it’s not doing women, any favors.
So, we need to change the language.
Barbara: No, I mean, just think about that, right? I mean, I would never jump out of an airplane. I don’t understand people that jump out of a perfectly good airplane. I really don’t. It’s there. You’re up in the air. Enjoy the view. Why do you have to be part of the view? Do you know what I’m saying?
I mean, it’s like, no. But that is such a great observation because we are not, it totally changes the conversation. If you take the word risk out of it. I will tell you, I am risk averse. You know, I am, I am not somebody who is like, yeah, well, this one will get you this return, but it’s going to be, you know, I’m like, peace out.
Not doing that one.
Jean: Understand. And so, one way to approach it differently. Is to think about what it’s going to take to help you feel safe and secure financially. And it’s really about putting together things that help women achieve financial security. And that’s what financial security is, is different for every person.
It could be an emergency fund. It could be owning your own home, but oftentimes if you can say, and Barbara, I don’t want to put words in your mouth – Hey, if I have X, Y, and Z and I’m covered for maybe the next five years. I’m okay to invest my money knowing it’s going to grow, but the way we frame the conversation is all wrong.
Barbara: Oh, I adore you. Honestly, you know, my podcasts are usually 10 to 15 minutes, maybe 18. Right. I could talk to you about this topic forever.
Here’s what I want to tell my listeners:
Jean Lynn is brilliant. I have ordered my book.
You can order yours here >> Breaking the Money Taboo.
You can also check out her website here.
It has been such a pleasure. What is one thing as women? We’ve just had this conversation. We know that it’s, you know, set up wrong for women. It’s set up totally for men and they try to complicate it.
Finishing Up: Next Steps
What is one thing we can do? What is the first step that we can do to move toward, you know, getting more interested in investing and taking that leap?
Jean: Uh, I’ll give you two quick things. One, because as this is reiterating what I said before, one is just allowing yourself to dream a little bit. What is your life? What do you want your life to look like? What’s something that you really want to do? And the second thing I would say is talk to another woman about it.
Barbara: Oh!
Jean: Share the answer to that question with another woman because we’re not having enough conversations with each other. And this is how we break that money taboo is we start talking to each other about money.
Barbara: I love that. I love that so much, Jean, and you guys know that I am planning dinners here in the Twin Cities area. So, I think money should, we should have that as one of the topics, um, and have everybody have a candid discussion around money. Maybe we’ll do a book club around your book, Jean.
Jean: I love it.
Barbara: Oh my gosh, we’re going to start a movement here in Minnesota.
Jean: Fabulous, that’ll be fabulous.
Barbara: Thank you so much for being my first guest. Um, this has been a fascinating conversation, truly. And, um, I hope that it has, you know, ignited some thinking in my listeners. And certainly, you guys grab her book, listen to her, scope out her website. She’s really excellent. Jean, thanks so much for being a guest.
Jean: I really appreciate it. Thank you, Barbara.